Vikram Gulati of Toyota Kirloskar Motors

As India is witnessing transition in mobility both on account of different energy powertrains and ethanol blend of petrol, Vikram Gulati, country head and EVP, Toyota Kirloskar Motors told Sandeep Singh that all cleaner technologies need to be supported to help reduce carbon emissions, bring down pollution, and reduce dependence on imported energy. Amid growing concerns over impact of ethanol blend on fuel efficiency, he said that the studies showed that the shift from E10 to E20 had negligible material impact and the impact on fuel efficiency was in the range of around 3-5%. He, however, said that for E25, new and older vehicles need to be evaluated before making that transition. He also called for greater policy support for hybrids for faster displacement of petrol and diesel cars. Edited excerpts:

Where do you see EVs, Hybrids, ethanol based flex-fuels fitting in the country’s mobility transition?

If you look at India’s priorities from a macro perspective, the objectives are very clear — reduce fossil fuel consumption, reduce carbon emissions, bring down pollution, increase domestic value addition and reduce dependence on imported energy.

I think at this stage, it makes sense to support all cleaner technologies. It is not EV versus hybrid — it is EVs and hybrids. Along with that, we need flex fuels, CNG, compressed biogas, hydrogen and other solutions working together. The task is so huge that even if all these technologies grow, there will still be a gap and fossil fuels will continue to remain part of the system.

Anyone who wants to buy an EV will buy an EV. A hybrid is not going to distract that customer. But someone who is considering buying a petrol or diesel vehicle may think twice if a hybrid gives them the right total cost of ownership. So every hybrid sold is actually replacing a petrol or diesel vehicle. That helps the country, the city and the environment. Policy should ensure that the customer is not inadvertently taxed more for choosing such a clean technology.

Ethanol on the other hand is extremely relevant for India as it is a domestic energy source, it supports the agricultural economy, helps reduce the amount of fossil fuel we consume and is the fastest as well as cheapest way to decarbonize road mobility.

India’s energy challenge is huge. There have been forecasts indicating that a significant part of the increase in global fossil fuel demand over the coming years will come from India because of economic growth and the increasing number of vehicles. The only way to address this is by improving efficiency and encouraging energy substitution through both electricity and ethanol.

India is pushing ethanol blending aggressively. Do you think this is the right time to accelerate the ethanol roadmap?

Definitely. If you look at the ethanol industry, there is significant available capacity today. The industry has been highlighting that plants are operating below their potential, and there is enough opportunity to scale up ethanol production. This can help India reduce petrol consumption and fossil fuel dependence. This is the right time to move in that direction.

Brazil’s experience is very important. Initially, after the oil crisis, they pushed ethanol-only vehicles. But customer adoption had limitations because people wanted flexibility. The major change happened when flex-fuel vehicles (FFVs) were introduced. FFVs were promoted by the government through enabling policies that encouraged rapid customer adoption. Once customers had the ability to use different ethanol blends depending on availability and economics, ethanol adoption increased sharply. That is the real learning — make the FFV technology customer-friendly, affordable to buy and run.

India has a strong opportunity. If policies create economic value for customers — both while buying flex-fuel vehicles and while using ethanol fuel — adoption can grow very quickly. For manufacturers also, scale matters. If volumes increase, engine supply chains can be developed for flex-fuel technology at a larger scale, which will help bring costs down.

The important point is that the transition has to be designed properly and the customer has to accept it. The technology, policy and economics all have to work together and there has to be value for the customer.

There are concerns around higher ethanol blends and their impact on fuel efficiency and engines. How do you see that?

We need to clearly differentiate between different blends. E85 is meant only for flex-fuel vehicles that are specifically designed for flexibly using any higher ethanol content. There was also some discussion on moving existing vehicles beyond E20, for example towards E25. That requires careful evaluation. The issue is not that it cannot be done but requires adequate testing to be completed & evaluated as was done earlier for E20.

When India moved from E10 to E20, a lot of studies were conducted. Older vehicles from different manufacturers were tested. Material compatibility, component deterioration and fuel efficiency impact were evaluated. The conclusion was that there was very negligible material impact. Fuel efficiency impact was minimal & estimated in the range of around 3-5%. Therefore the concerns being seen in social media recently are not backed by scientific facts and sound technical evaluation.

But for E25, similar extensive testing has not yet happened. New vehicles and older vehicles need to be evaluated before making that transition. Testing will provide the answer. However, we feel that FFV provides agility and is the optimal way ahead.

EVs are witnessing a rise in demand, what are the challenges for EVs?

EVs are absolutely required. It is a good technology going forward. EVs must be encouraged and the lower GST incentive and charging infrastructure support are aimed at helping consumers adopt EVs. But consumers will buy EVs only when it becomes an economically rational and convenient choice for them. The bigger challenge with EVs is localisation of value add and reducing raw material dependence. That has to be solved to make the transition sustainable.

Hybrid vehicles are also witnessing strong demand over the last one year. What has changed?

I think hybrid as a technology is being accepted very well by consumers now as they are understanding the practicality and relevance of this powertrain. At this point in time, hybrids make a lot of sense. Recently, during a discussion around Environment Day, there was a lot of focus on different technologies — EVs, flex fuels, isobutanol experiments, hydrogen and others. But one important point that also came up was the need for vehicles that can deliver a drastic improvement in fuel efficiency. That is where hybrids become extremely relevant. Being a technology that delivers nationally important outcomes it also needs to be further supported by policy for faster displacement of petrol and diesel cars.

Are you saying hybrids need greater policy support?

Yes, they need to be supported more. Certified data shows hybrids can deliver around 40-50% improvement in fuel efficiency. For a city like Delhi, where there is congestion and a lot of low-speed driving, hybrids make even more sense as in city driving conditions, when conventional petrol or diesel vehicles are at their worst — during idling and crawling — hybrids perform very efficiently because they operate in EV mode. A hybrid vehicle can practically run nearly 60% of the time in EV mode with the engine switched off. It does not require external charging infrastructure, uses a very small battery — around 1-2 kWh compared to much larger batteries in EVs — and still delivers significant benefits in the areas we want to address.